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A RESEARCH SUPPLEMENT
Fresh Advices
JULY 1987
Oral History and Williamsburg' s Black Community:
Interviews with Mrs. Fannie Epps
From July to December 1986, Kathleen Bragdon
of the department of historical research conducted
oralhistory research with Mrs. Fannie Epps, a life
tenant in the Historic Area, who was born in Wil-
liamsburg in 1895. As a member of Williams butg' s black community and a descendant of a
long -established York County'family, Mrs. Epps's
memories tell us a great deal about little known
aspects oflocal black history and about the changes
thathave occurred in Williamsburg in the twentieth
century.
set in the informant' s home, and the oral historian has a prepared set of questions to ask.
All interviews should be tape recorded. The
new interviewer has many lessons to learn
about method. In general, it is best to inter-
view informants one at a time; interviews
done simultaneously with more than one informant become confusing, argumentative, or
contradictory. The interviewer must learn to
allow the informant time to formulate an answer and must not interrupt or contradict.
have tumed increasingly to studies of " hid-
Another difficult lesson to learn is when to
pursue a new avenue of inquiry brought out by
the interview and when to return to the origi-
den" segments of past societies to supple-
nal line of questioning.
ment and correct our vision of America' s past,
After the interview is completed, the tape recording must be transcribed, an arduous
task. The first transcription is often a shock to
both the interviewer and informant; most
people don' t realize how repetitive and ram-
In the past several decades as historians
oral history has been recognized as a significant tool for uncovering little known or unrecorded facts about everyday life. Although its
methods are different from those traditionally
employed by historians, oral history supple-
bling their conversation can be. Some inter-
ments, complements, and sometimes corrects
view transcriptions are edited to remove the
information derived from documentary re-
interviewer's inanities, repetitious remarks,
and interjections, but others are left in their
search.
The subjects researched by oral historians
include anything within the memories of their
original state. The advantage of the first
informants, who are often chosen because
their individual experiences, occupations, or
cription, while the advantage of the latter is its
longevity makes them repositories of forgot-
versation and a lower probability of accidental
ten information. Sometimes their knowledge
loss of information due to overediting.
is about ordinary subjects: how hogs were
slaughtered, what people ate for Saturday
was like. Often these informants were present
Some successful oral histories have been
collected from a single individual, while
others are based on the memories of several
people. Numerous case studies have demon-
at important events or were members of sig-
strated the surprising accuracy with which
night supper, what a country church service
method is the increased clarity of the transpreservation of the original flavor of the con-
nificant organizations, and their memories are
many people remember events, names, and
the only records of what took place. Oral his-
even dates for periods spanning several
tory is the history of the taken- for granted and
the history of those who left few or no written
records. It is also the history ofthe recent past.
decades.
Some
oral histories have been
known to describe accurately events dating
back a century or more, when those stories
The interview is the primary source for the
have been passed down between generations.
Joral historian. In most cases the interview is
continued, p. ii)
�grandparents, Fannie and George Howard.
Mrs. Epps, continued
The oral history technique, used successfully
by folklorists and anthropologists investigating non literate aboriginal American and Afri-
The following is an excerpt from an interview
with Mrs. Epps conceming her great- grandparents' cabin.
0
can cultures, has in recent decades been
shown to be equally effective in studying
KB: Can you describe for us again your great -
everyday life in our own society as well.
Particularly significant have been those oral
grandparents' cabin, which was out in York
histories of African-Americans, beginning
with Lynwood Montell' s groundbreaking
County?
FE: Well, it was a log cabin ...
log house,
I guess you could call it a cabin ... '
cause
Saga of Coe Ridge, written in 1973. In this
study Montell was able to re- create the lives of
it had one big room with a big fireplace.
the inhabitants of Coe Ridge in Cumberland
they used to paper them —not with wallpaper but with newspaper. And when I was
And the walls were of clay ...
County, Kentucky, using information from
interviews
taken
thirty
years
because
a child —the reason I remember it was
newspaper was I had just learned how to
after that
Appalachian community was abandoned.
Most recently the value of oral history re-
And I' d go around and read the
newspapers. And she [ Mrs. Epps' s great read ....
search has been reaffirmed in Charles Joyner' s
grandmother, Betsey Thornton] thought
Down by the Riverside, an ethnohistory of South
Carolina' s nineteenth century rice plantation
slaves. This study and others have provided
much information about the history of Afri-
that was just grand.
KB: Did they ever change that paper or was
it up there permanently?
FE: It stayed up there ... and as far as I
can- Americans in various parts of the South.
knew, they put it up there with a paste
Another group of African- Americans has
and cooked it
been perhaps less well studied. These are the
made of flour and water .. ,
Africans and African descendants who during
or something and spread it on there and put
the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries
it up on the walls. And they didn' t put it in
were granted their freedom and settled in free
the water. They just put it up on the walls
KB: So it had a big fireplace and one large
black communities that had become common
in Virginia, North Carolina, and South Caro-
room downstairs.
FE: Yes. One thing that I remember, too,
lina by the outbreak of the Civil War. With the
exception of Timothy Breen' s recent ` dyne
about it was that it had a bed ...
and they
didn' t have mattresses like we have now. It
owne ground': Race and Freedom on ! Virginia's
Eastern Shore, these communities have not
was a quilted mattress. And so we had a
little stool and the bed was up high like
this. And I being a little child, I had to step
up on the stool. And then I' d fall over on
been arintensely analyzed, in part because
there is very little documentary evidence
available concerning them. Several such communitie s" existed in Virginia in the early
nineteenth century, and the lives of their
members and descendants can be partially illuminated through oral history research. In-
the bed. And the bed was made offeathers.
KB: Now was this bedroom the main room?
FE: The fireplace was in the center. The
bed was over there and the chest was over
formation about these communities can in
on this other side of the fireplace. And I
turn shed light on the later history of African -
used to like to get up on that stool and fall
Americans in the Tidewater.
Mrs. Fannie Epps, a life tenant in the
over in that bed ...
because it was all soft
George Reid House in Colonial Williamsburg' s
and everything. And you used to have to
make it up with a broomstick —you know,
Historic Area, is a descendant of members of a
a broom handle. And take it and beat it up
and smooth it out.
free black community in York County. Her
great grandparents, William and Betsey
Thornton, lived in the vicinity of Black
KB: Now, was there a loft above the main
Swamp, on lands now occupied by the Naval
FE: Yes, but I never went —I don' t remem-
floor?
I don' t
Weapons Station. Mrs. Epps was born in Wil-
ber ever going up in the loft ....
liamsburg on November 23, 1895, and
remembers as a small child being taken to visit
her great -grandparents who lived in a log
remember anything up in there at all. And I
cabin near Grove. The Thornton lived be-
from this log cabin. And we used to go
hind the " big house" owned by Mrs. Epps's
continued, p. iii)
didn' t go in the kitchen too much ...
be-
cause the spring was down the hill .. .
ii
J
�Mrs. Epps, continued
down to the spring ... to carry the
butter — in the spring in this tin bucket.
put
KB: Now what did the outside of the cabin
look like?
that family and remained with them until her
marriage to Henry Pierce. She and Henry
then
settled on Francis
Street, and their
children were regarded as part of the Hams
family as well. Mrs. Epps lived with the
FE: Just the logs. Just the logs and the
in between it. And it had a door.
clay ...
Harrises most of her young life and moved
permanently to Francis Street only when her
mother became ill in 1912 or 1913.
A big door.
The Thomtons' cabin was probably similar
Mrs. Epps remembers life at the Harris
house with great fondness. Sam Harris, the
to some that were photographed near Rich-
owner
mond
in the late
regarded as a leader and benefactor of the local
photographs
black community. His home, located above
the store at the site of the Davidson Shop, was
and
nineteenth
in
Newport News
century. ' These
depict interiors of one -room cabins papered
with
newspaper advertisements,
and
an
as-
of
a
profitable
general
store,
was
a gathering place for friends and family, and
sortment of furniture centered around a large
Mrs. Epps describes many a happy time at
fireplace. These photographs are now part of
the Cook Collection, some of which is located
at the Valentine Museum in Richmond and
Christmas and Easter, when the Harrises'
daughter
Elizabeth played
the
piano and
sings" were held. Young Fannie Pierce had
some at the Colonial Williamsburg Founda-
the run of the store and was allowed to sneak
tion Library. A number of these have also
peanuts and other goodies from the bins that
been
ranged along one wall.
published in Lawrence Kocher and
Howard Dearstyne' s Shadows in Silver and
John Vlach' s The Afro American Tradition in
DecorativeArts.
Mrs. Thornton was bom in the early 1800s,
according to Mrs. Epps, but had never been a
She remembers too being sent on errands
up Duke of Gloucester Street, sometimes to
Miss Mullins' s Store located in what is now
Merchants Square. She was told, she recalls,
to stay away from the `rowdy comer" at Colo-
slave. She had worked before her marriage for
nial and Duke of Gloucester streets, where
a family by the name of Henley, also residents
patrons of one of the saloons would gather.
Oof York County. Her daughter, Fannie Thorn-
Fannie visited her parents' home on Francis
ton Howard, who was born before 1860, was a
midwife. Fannie' s husband, George Howard,
Street daily and helped her mother and
brothers with many daily chores. Her mother
was employed as a plasterer. They lived in a
worked as a laundress, and her father worked
framed
at Eastern State Hospital. Among the tasks
house near the Thomtons'
cabin,
which, based on Mrs. Epps' s descriptions,
Fannie' s mother performed daily was drawing
was probably the standard folk " I" house, the
water from a backyard well to fill two enor-
two story, " two - ver -wo" structure with a
o
t
central hall built throughout the late eigh-
mous tubs, which were kept on the boil, both
teenth and nineteenth centuries in this
region. Like their white and black neighbors,
the Howards kept a kitchen garden and raised
cleaned the oil lamps, brought in wood, and
chickens, guinea hens, cows, and hogs.
between the World Wars remind us that there
summer and winter, for washing. Fannie
watched the younger children.
Mrs. Epps' s recollections of Williamsburg
Her family attended nearby St. John' s
were in reality two separate communities
Baptist Church. Some supplies were pur-
then, the black and the white. This excerpt
chased at a local store, but many were brought
describes the " eating houses" or restaurants
out to the rural families by their relatives living in town. Mrs. Epps recalls that when she
was a little girl living in Williamsburg, she was
taken by horse and wagon down to York
County, carrying tea and coffee, cloth, and
other such staples and bringing back in return
country products like vegetables, fruits, eggs,
owned and patronized by Williamsburg' s
and milk.
In the late 1870s Mrs. Epps' s mother, Sarah
black residents in the 1920s and ' 30s.
FE: We had eating houses. I wouldn' t call
them restaurants because they —beef
stew, and beans, and ... .
KB: You called them eating houses?
FE: [ laughter] Yeah.
KB: Where were they?
Howard, came to Williamsburg to act as nurse
FE: Well, there was one right down here
to the children of Mr. and Mrs. Samuel Harris.
somewhere that had a restaurant —Mr.
l She soon became an " adopted" daughter of
continued, p. iv)
�Mrs. Epps, continued
forebears span a period of nearly two hundred
years, all spent in and near Williamsburg. " I
Crutchfield had a restaurant.
laugh," she says, " when I read about someone
KB: Was he a black man?
FE: Uh huh. Tall.
saying they've lived here twenty five, thirty five years and saying they know what Williamsburg was like —I' ve lived here ninety-
KB: And he had a restaurant?
FE: He had a restaurant.
KB: Do you remember what it was called?
FE: And the Cramps had a restaurant.
one years."
Mrs. Epps' s memories of stories told to her
Right across the street here.
by her great-grandparents and grandparents
KB: Did the restaurants have names?
tell us things about the life of free blacks in the
FE: We just called it Cramp' s Restaurant.
nineteenth century which are nowhere recorded, and her own experiences tell us a
KB: Did you call the other one Crutchfield' s Restaurant?
great deal about how the lives of African -
FE: Yeah. Down at Confusion Corner.
Americans in eastern Virginia have changed
KB: What kind of food did they serve?
during the past century. She is the kind of
FE: Beef stew, and beans, and chitlings, and
laughter].
informant oral historians dream about but
seldom find.
KB: But why did you say it wasn' t really
like a restaurant? It sounds like it was.
FE: It was —it was a restaurant. It was really
Recommended Reading
a restaurant, but some of them didn' t have
a room as big as this. And they had tables in
there, but you know—
Barbara Allen and Lynwood Montell. From
KB: Did they have a waiter or waitresses or
Memory to History: Using Oral Sources in
Local Historical Research. Nashville, 1981.
something?
FE: Yeah. They' d have some waitresses.
Willa K. Baum. Oral History for the Local
Historical Society. Nashville, 1971.
Another example of the distinctiveness of
David K. Dunaway and Willa K. Baum. Oral
History: An
the black community was the existence of
organizations whose primary function was to
Interdisciplinary
Anthology.
Nashville, 1983.
provide aid in times of sickness. One of these,
A. Lawrence Kocher and Howard Dearstyne.
known as the Household of Ruth, met at the
Shadows in Silver: A Record of Virginia,
1850 - 1900...
old Oddfellows' building on Nicholson Street.
New York, 1954.
Members paid dues and also provided food
and care for other members and their families.
Charles Joyner. Down by the Riverside. Urbana,
These societies, as well as church organiza-
Lynwood Montell. The Saga of Coe Ridge.
Ill., 1986.
Knoxville, 1970.
tions, provided the bulk of what poor relief
John M. Vlach. The Afro-American Tradition in
and public aid was available for blacks in the
early decades of the twentieth century.
Decorative Am. Cleveland, 1978.
Fannie Pierce married Frederick Epps on
October 15, 1917. She had completed seven
In celebration of James City County' s
Tercentennial, a number oforal histories were
recorded and are now being transcribed.
These will eventually be published. In the
meantime, audio cassettes of oral history interviews with Mrs. Epps and other long time
residents are available at the Williamsburg
Regional Library.
years of schooling and taken some courses
toward a teaching degree. She gave up teaching when her children were bom: Federick,
Jr., in 1918; Henry in 1919; Warren in 1921;
and Roland in 1927. She, her husband, and
their surviving sons have worked for Colonial
Williamsburg. Henry Epps died in 1938 and
Frederick, Sr., in 1961. Fred, Jr. retired in
1983, and Warren in 1982. Roland Epps is
currently special functions manager at the
An occasional supplement to The Interpreter newsletter,
Cascades.
Fred Adnices is the coordinated effort of Colonial Wil-
Today, at age 91, Mrs. Epps works as a
foster grandmother for the
liamsburg' s research departments.
Editor: Lou Powers
Norge school
EditorialBoard:: Barney Barnes, John Caramia,
George Collins, Liza Gusler, Cathy Hellier,
system and remains an active member of the
First Baptist Church. Her own life and her
Dennis O' Toole, Jane Strauss, and Bill Tramposch.
memories of stories told to her by her
iv
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Colonial Williamsburg Interpreter
Description
An account of the resource
<p><em>The Colonial Williamsburg Interpreter</em> was a newsletter published July 1980-September 2009 by the education and research departments of Colonial Williamsburg and authored mainly by staff researchers and interpreters. Its purpose was to disseminate information germane to the current interpretive focus of the Historic Area uniformly across the various departments involved with historical interpretation. Some of the articles sprang from the need to impart new research or interpretive information to staff while others were inspired by employee questions or suggestions. In the earlier issues, standard sections include “The King’s English” which explained various words or terminology encountered in 18th century life, “Occurrences” which noted different programs and events of interest to employees and visitors, and “The Exchange” which was a guest column that offered the perspective and knowledge of non-research department employees on various subjects. Later issues had regular columns about historical subjects, archaeology, gardening, new books at the Foundation library, “Cook’s Corner” about foodways, “Interpreter’s Corner” concerning issues of interpretation, and a Q & A section. The number of issues published per year varied as did the length of the newsletter.</p>
<p>Several supplemental publications sprang from the Interpreter including <em>Fresh Advices, Questions & Answers</em>, and A<em> Cultural Time Line & Glossary for Williamsburg in the Eighteenth Century</em>. Fresh Advices offered discussions of recent research conducted by the Foundation and opportunities for applying it in the Historic Area. It was published infrequently from 1981-1987. <em>Questions & Answers</em> began and ended as a column in the <em>Interpreter</em>, but also existed as a supplemental publication from 1980-1989. It functioned as a means to answer common interpreter questions to the research department about eighteenth-century history and culture, Williamsburg area history, and Colonial Williamsburg itself. The one-time 1990 publication <em>A Cultural Time Line & Glossary for Williamsburg in the Eighteenth Century</em> consisted of a oversize poster-sized timeline and a glossary booklet. The time line included notable events in the Age of Enlightenment in the categories of politics, philosophy and religion, education, science and technology, fine arts and architecture, and performing arts and literature. The glossary was an expansion on selected entries from the time line to give more information on people and events that directly or indirectly influenced the development of colonial Virginia society.</p>
<p>An index to the <em>Interpreter</em> and its supplemental publications may be found here: <a href="http://research.colonialwilliamsburg.org/library/_files/Interpreter.pdf">Colonial Williamsburg Interpreter Index, 1980-2009</a>.</p>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Fresh advices, July, 1987
Description
An account of the resource
Oral History and Williamsburg's Black Community: Interviews with Mrs. Fannie Epps